The Story Talks Back

John Gardner: Remembering a passionate, controversial advocate for writers and fiction

In the 1970s, John Gardner was a star in the world of literary fiction, often mentioned in the same breath as Norman Mailer, John Updike, and Kurt Vonnegut. He won huge acclaim for his 1971 novel, Grendel, a post-modern retelling of the Beowulf legend. And in 1976, he won the National Book Critics Circle Award for October Light, the story of two elderly Vermont siblings waging a war of wills inside their ramshackle home.

Gardner was also a leading force in the movement to establish creative writing in college curricula. For over 20 years, he taught writing at universities across the country, providing crucial early guidance to Raymond Carver, Charles Johnson, and many other notables. Gardner published early works by Joyce Carol Oates, William Gass, and others in MSS, the literary magazine he founded in the early 1960s and revived almost 20 years later. And his two books on craft and the writing life, The Art of Fiction and On Becoming a Novelist, are now considered classics.

But as quickly as Gardner’s star had risen, it began to fall. In 1978, he published “On Moral Fiction,” a literary manifesto in which he criticized many of the most famous writers of his generation. Decrying “tinny” and “commercial” fiction, Gardner called for writing that affirms life. A year earlier, Gardner also faced charges of plagiarism, over his book-length biography of Chaucer.

Born and raised in rural Batavia, New York, Gardner was the oldest of three children and his parents’ favorite; but his life changed forever on a fateful day in April 1945. Gardner, then 11, was driving a tractor pulling a cultipacker, a large device for flattening soil, with his 6-year-old brother, Gilbert, riding on back. The tractor stopped suddenly, but the cultipacker kept moving, and Gilbert was thrown beneath the steel rollers. Gardner was haunted by the tragic accident throughout his life, retelling the events in his powerful  short story “Redemption.”

In August 1982, Gardner was a lead instructor at the Bread Loaf Writers Conference in Middlebury, Vermont — an elite gathering where he had taught many times before. I interviewed Gardner in two sessions at the conference — conversations that would become his last interview. On September 14, 1982 — just four days before he was to be married for the third time — Gardner died in a still-mysterious motorcycle accident on a country road not far from his Pennsylvania home.

Sections of my conversations with Gardner appear in this tribute – enhanced but still sometimes difficult to hear – as well as new interviews with some of the people who knew Gardner best. In order of appearance, they are:

* Novelist and educator Ron Hansen, author of "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" and "Hitler’s Niece"

* Susan Thornton, Gardner’s fiancée when he died and author of the memoir "On Broken Glass: Loving and Losing John Gardner"

* Joel Gardner, John’s son and creator of the documentary film about his father, "Sunlight Man"

* Carolyn Forche, award winning poet and memoirist, whose books include "The Country Between Us" and "What You Have Heard Is True"

* Liz Rosenberg, Gardner’s second wife and co-editor with him of the journal MSS … She has published over 35 books, including poetry collections, young adult fiction, and children’s picture books.

We have made every attempt to enhance the interview segments with Gardner, but you may need to turn up your volume to hear them

Glenn Gould: Remembering a master storyteller of music and media

At the age of 22, Glenn Gould burst onto the global music scene – an instant star, thanks to his virtuoso recording of a then-obscure Bach work, “The Goldberg Variations.” And from the beginning, Gould was not just a musician, but a character who might have stepped from the pages of a novel – cheerfully eccentric, an admitted hypochondriac who wore scarves in the summertime, and a loner who preferred to sleep during the day and work through the night.

Doing things differently seemed to make life more interesting for Gould’s restless mind. He chose an often-surprising repertoire – and, after a relatively short touring career, gave up concerts altogether in 1964, an extraordinary decision that placed him on an almost singular path among classical artists. He invented a fascinating and challenging form of radio documentary, which he called contrapuntal radio, and produced numerous programs for the CBC in this format. He won four Grammy Awards during his lifetime, composed his own string quartet, and wrote dozens of essays.

In 1982, not long after recording a widely praised re-interpretation of “The Goldberg Variations” – and just two days past his 50th birthday – Gould suffered a devastating stroke. He died about a week later, on October 4th. It was the end of singular life, career and story.

In this special edition of The Story Talks Back, Gould’s friend and collaborator, the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic Tim Page, talks to us about Gould as story and storyteller – recalling his face-to-face interview with Gould just weeks before the pianist’s death, as well as their hours-long phone conversations, Gould’s prescient desire to give listeners more control in the creative process, and much more. 

Page is the editor of The Glenn Gould Reader, an indispensable collection of the pianist’s written work, and the author of Parallel Play. He has also edited an anthology of the great critic Virgil Thomson and published a biography of the New York novelist Dawn Powell, almost single-handedly reviving interest in her work. 

Page is a dean among classical music critics, with notable stints at The Soho Weekly News, Newsday, The New York Times, and The Washington Post, where he won the Pulitzer Prize in criticism in 1997. He is an Emeritus Professor of Musicology at the University of Southern California and continues to write about music  and culture for The Washington Post and other publications.

Photo of Gould courtesy of Sony Classical.

#glenngould #glenngouldat90 #geniuses #genius #visionaries #creativity #creativeprocess #goldbergvariations #jsbach #timpage #solitude #nocturnal #canada #canadians #gouldiana #pianists #greatpianists #recording #recordingasanart #touring #artistsontour #eccentricity #eccentrics #autism #autismspectrum      

Preview: Tim Page discusses pianist Glenn Gould as story and storyteller

Marking the 90th birthday of the late, great Canadian pianist and media artist Glenn Gould, we offer this preview of our forthcoming interview with Tim Page -- a journalist and radio host who became Glenn's close friend. Shortly before Gould's death at age 50, Page traveled north to take part in a discussion with him -- occasioned by the pianist's now classic 2nd version of Bach's "Goldberg Variations" -- that became Gould's last interview. In this excerpt from our full interview about Gould as story and storyteller, Page reveals that the pianist was quite savvy about his image and had no trouble leaning into his sometimes-eccentric nature if it meant engaging an audience more fully.

#glenngould #glenngouldanniversary #timpage #canada #canadians #goldbergvariations #bach #greatpianists #eccentricity #autism #autismspectrum #aspergers #stories #storytellers #columbiamasterworks

Photo: Fred Plaut / Sony Music Entertainment

Preview: A tribute to novelist, critic, and teacher John Gardner -- 40 years later

On September 14, 1982, the celebrated novelist and critic John Gardner died in a still-mysterious motorcycle crash on a remote Pennsylvania road. In the 11 years leading up to that moment, Gardner had seen his fame skyrocket — with the publication of his masterful short novel "Grendel" — and then decline again almost as rapidly.

He had become a legendary teacher of creative writing, authoring two now-classic guides to the craft. He had also been accused of plagiarism and offended many of the most famous writers of his day with his 1978 diatribe "On Moral Fiction."

Less than three weeks before his death, TSTB host David Stanton recorded two conversations with Gardner at the Bread Loaf Writer’s Conference in Middlebury, Vermont. These would become his last interview. In an upcoming tribute episode of The Story Talks Back, TSTB will share excerpts from those conversations, as well as interviews with some of the people who knew him best, including his son, Joel; his fiancée at the time of his death, Susan Thornton; and his friend, colleague and student Ron Hansen — now a celebrated novelist in his own right. Take a listen to this preview -- Gardner speaks first, and please lean into your speaker to be sure you’ll hear him ….

Photo credit: Joel Gardner

#stories #storytellers #storytelling #creativewriting #masterteacher #mentor #mentoring #publishing #novelists #greatnovelists #fiction #fictionwriting #interviews #grendel #beowulf #sunlightdialogues #saulbellow #kurtvonnegut #bernardmalamud #breadloaf #breadloafwritersconference #onmoralfiction #tragedy #tragicdeath #motorcycle #motorcycleaccident #newyorkstate #newyork @BinghamtonUniversity @Southern Illinois University - Chancellor @Bennington College

Dean Sluyter: Finding dharma stories in Western classics -- from Dickinson to Dr. Seuss

In this first interview of our third year, TSTB pays a return visit to the person who kicked things off for us in 2020 -- award-winning author Dean Sluyter. A grateful student of Eastern and Western sages in several traditions, Sluyter has completed numerous pilgrimages and retreats in India, Tibet, Nepal, and the West. He has also taught meditation since 1970, from maximum security prisons to the Guatemalan rainforest. Sluyter's latest book, "The Dharma Bum's Guide to Western Literature: Finding Nirvana in the Classics," reflects his lifelong exploration of the awakening process as well as his years as a prep school English teacher. His other books include "Fear Less," "Natural Meditation," "The Zen Commandments," and "Cinema Nirvana." #meditation #enlightenment #yoga #easternphilosophy #easternclassics #stories #storytelling #buddhistmeditation #dharmastories #greatgatsby #madmagazine #alfredeneuman #thecatinthehat #drseuss #marktwain #huckleberryfinn #frederickdouglass

Preview: Dean Sluyter reveals what MAD Magazine taught him about enlightenment -- and dharma stories

In our first interview of TSTB's third year, we return to the writer who got us started -- the wonderfully engaging author, meditation teacher, and dharma storyteller Dean Sluyter. In his latest book, "The Dharma Bum's Guide to Western Literature," Sluyter draws on over four decades of teaching -- and even more years of dharma studies -- to surface enlightenment lessons in everything from "Huckleberry Finn" to "The Cat in the Hat." in this unforgettable anecdote, Sluyter tells how he learned his first dharma lesson from the inimitable Alfred E. Neuman, the sublimely dorky "idiot mascot" of MAD Magazine. #madmagazine #alfredeneuman #stories #storytellers #enlightenment #enlightenmentlessons #dharma #dharmalessons #deansluyter #meditation #wisdomteaching

Dr. Bertrand Cramer: Unearthing the extraordinary everyday stories of parents and children

In this session, TSTB talks to legendary psychiatrist Dr. Bertrand Cramer. Born in 1934 in Geneva, Switzerland, Dr. Cramer moved to New York City at age 26 and graduated from the New York Psychoanalytic Institute. A pioneer in child and infant psychiatry, Dr. Cramer has maintained a private practice for the past 27 years. He has authored eight books, including "The Earliest Relationship" — co-written with Dr. T. Berry Brazelton — and "The Scripts Parents Write and the Roles Babies Play." His 100 or so articles include "Evaluating Mother-Infant Psychotherapies" and "The Transmission of Womanhood from Mother to Daughter." He has taught at Harvard University and Geneva University Medical School and currently lives in Switzerland. In this interview, Dr. Cramer talks about his childhood in Switzerland and his experiences with his own parents and family. He talks about his work studying Munchausen syndrome, his observations on the complex relationships of mothers and children, and his recent studies of children experiencing gender dysphoria. #psychiatry #childpsychiatry #infantpsychiatry #childpsychology #mothersandbabies #mothersanddaughters #tberrybrazelton #familydrama #familysecrets

Note: The opinions expressed by our guests are not necessarily those of The Story Talks Back or David Stanton.

Preview: Dr. Bertrand Cramer on Freud, psychoanalysis, and how childhood stories shape us as adults

Now 88 years old, Dr. Bertrand Cramer is one of the world's most respected child and adolescent psychiatrists. With his book "The Scripts Parents Write and the Roles Children Play," Dr. Cramer delivered breakthrough insights on the power of family stories to influence childhood development. He also collaborated with best-selling author and fellow psychiatrist T. Berry Brazelton on the now-classic work "The Earliest Attachment: Parents, Infants, and the Drama of Early Attachment." In this excerpt from our forthcoming full interview with Dr. Cramer -- who lives in Switzerland -- he talks about the inherent connect between psychiatric practice and stories -- a link that can be traced all the way back to Freud. #psychiatry #psychiatric #childpsychiatry #childhoodfears #parentsandchildren #parentsandkids #familystories #attachment #childhood #sigmundfreud #carljung #stories #storytelling #storytellers #tberrybrazelton #bertrandcramer

 

Photo credit: Booknode

Toby Amies: Documentary director celebrates the power of human stories

TSTB talks to artist filmmaker Toby Amies. Based on the South Coast of England, Amies makes long and short films about the creative process in what he calls “a vain attempt to compensate for his inability to come to terms with time and its passage.” He is the director of the award-winning 2012 documentary “The Man Whose Mind Exploded,” and the widely praised 2022 film “in the Court of the Crimson King” — a revealing exploration of the extraordinary British prog rock band King Crimson and its 50-year history. Amies reports that he is hoping for an Autumn worldwide release of the Crimson movie, which Chris Willman of Variety has said is "about as good as rock documentaries get.” #kingcrimson #progrock #robertfripp #billbruford #johnwetton #documentary #documentaryfilmmaker #documentaryvideo #musicdocumentary #musicvideo #progressiverock #progressiverockmusic #toyahwilcox #bobbywilcox

Preview: Filmmaker Toby Amies describes his ”moment by moment” approach to documentary storytelling

Toby Amies' "In the Court of the Crimson King" is already being celebrated as a classic among rock music documentaries -- and it hasn't even been officially released. Amies spent months following legendary guitarist Robert Fripp and his latest incarnation of the extraordinary music collective known as King Crimson -- now more than five decades old. The film is a singularly personal and truly engrossing look at a band from the inside, with revealing commentary from over 20 past and present members. Throughout the movie, Amies is a welcome, unifying presence -- his off-camera voice posing sometimes-uncomfortable questions, always to the viewer's benefit. In this brief excerpt from our forthcoming full interview, Amies describes his instinctive, spontaneous approach to documentary storytelling. #kingcrimson #inthecourtofthecrimsonking #robertfripp #documentaries #directors #documentarydirectors #rockdocumentaries #progrock #progressiverock #storytelling #storytellers #stories #filmmakers #filmmakersoncraft